We don't have an adequate air-traffic control system, and we don't have enough runways at Kennedy and LaGuardia. If I were in charge, I'd say we're not going to let the low-cost airlines fly into the major airports. I wouldn't let JetBlue into Kennedy or LaGuardia.

That sounds drastic?
It's not. If you want to be a low-cost carrier, by all means go and be a low-cost carrier. But you can't fly into the major airports. The Europeans have been doing this for years. The low-cost carriers could go to outlying areas.

It works in Europe?
Yes. The legacy carriers are much healthier, and there's plenty of low-cost carriers that go to the smaller airports.

Your op-ed piece says it should be harder to start an airline.
We need to get more stringent about the financing of airlines. About 200 [airlines] have come and gone since deregulation [in 1978]. We shouldn't let people start an airline unless they have $200 million in their pocket that they can afford to lose. We've also got to change the bankruptcy laws. If an airline goes bankrupt, it has to liquidate.

How would you characterize the current state of the industry?
It's never been worse. It's never been anywhere near as bad as it is now.

How did this happen?
We don't need the lowest possible prices and stinking service, and that's what we've got now. I lay it all right smack on the government. The government doesn't have a plan. It doesn't do anything. Everything it does do is aimed in the same direction -- lowering fares. If we're going to have network carriers in this country, we have to find some way for them to make a profit.

Do you enjoy flying?
No. Nobody enjoys flying these days. You have to get to the airports early. You have to wait. You have to take your shoes off. Who enjoys flying anymore?